Wand/Staff damage formula vs normal weapons - Guild Wars Forums

Longasc · Feb 08, 2008, 09:15 AM // 09:15

We know how damage is calculated for melee weapons. Critical Hit research is still empirical, but actually seems to be very accurate.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Damage_calculation

But how about wands and staves?

They do not work like axes, swords and so on. They take the char level in account, as far as I heard... I do not know it.

I did a test run with the Master of damage and different attribute values today. I used a customized Fire Staff (+20%):

At 16 Fire Magic:
2072 damage over 179 seconds, 11 dps
37 damage maximum hit

At 9 Fire Magic:
1960 damage over 180 seconds, 10 dps
26 damage maximum hit

Actually, it should be 11,58 dps vs 10,89 dps according to the numbers, the Master does some odd rounding here.

So, what is the formula for wands/staves? And was it just statistical error, coincidence, that 16 Fire Magic yields better results? The results are very close together, only 0,68 dps difference, which could be just bad or good luck.

The 37 damage must have been a critical hit, if staves/wands are actually capable of critical hits. It is also exceedingly rare, I remember only few hits over 24 damage at all.

I would like to add this data to the Wiki, or someone else to add it. Maybe someone can enlighten me how wand/staff damage is calculated.

quickmonty · Feb 08, 2008, 09:28 AM // 09:28

Not to throw a wet blanket on your hard work, but I never really cared how much damage my wand or staff was doing. As a caster I'm more concerned with what is happening with my skills, and the mods on my staff (or wand and offhand). I don't usually spend much time 'wanding' the target.

It is, however, interesting.

Longasc · Feb 08, 2008, 10:30 AM // 10:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by quickmonty

I don't usually spend much time 'wanding' the target.

It is, however, interesting.

Yep. I am interested in the mechanics, not in a general discussion about wanding targets to death.

Crom The Pale · Feb 08, 2008, 01:12 PM // 13:12

Not sure why you would think that your wand/staff dmg would be any differnt from that of a sword or bow or scythe, it is a weapon and is subject to all the same rules as any other weapon.

The attack spead of a wand/staff is 1.75seconds, this is equal to a hammer with a dmg range(max) of 11-22. If you really want a straight up comparison of weapons find a low end hammer with dmg 9-22(if such exist closest I've seen is 14-22) and have a go at the weapon master.

Darkobra · Feb 08, 2008, 02:16 PM // 14:16

I think they are capable of a critical, but as you say, it's not too common.

As for the more fire magic attribute meaning more damage for the staff, that is something I'd like to know more about. I never thought that'd be possible.

makosi · Feb 08, 2008, 02:20 PM // 14:20

Wands and Staves are capable of critical hits which is easiest to see with an Assassin with high Critical Strikes.

As for the OP's calculations, it is interesting that the damage averages at the lowest end of the spectrum. I'd expect to see 16.5DPS on average.

But on second thoughts, when you consider the attack speed, 11 to 12DPS seems accurate.

Quaker · Feb 08, 2008, 02:26 PM // 14:26

Off-hand, I can't see why the damage calculation for a wand/staff should be any different than for any other weapon.

On the other hand, we don't know what ANet's "actual" damage calculations are and what affects them, and/or how often they may change.

Stormlord Alex · Feb 08, 2008, 02:28 PM // 14:28

Let's see... ran some quick numbers over roughly a minute, with a customized Blood staff...

9 Blood Magic
Highest damage in 1 second - 37
DPS - ~11

16 Blood Magic
Highest damage in 1 second - 26
DPS - ~11

It seems as though staff damage really isn't tied to an attribute beyond meeting the req for the staff.

The reason it can appear slightly lower or higher is because - I'm theorizing - critical hits with a staff are so rare (~5%, iirc) that differing numbers of criticals in samples are significant enough events to skew the average DPS number you get.

edit: for clarity, full (quick) test numbers - 9 BM
618 damage over 53 seconds
= 11.66 dps

16 BM
623 damage over 56 seconds
= 11.125

which coincides with the seemingly higher damage caused by the staff at 9 BM(37 damage in 1 sec) - likely as a result of a crit.

Savio · Feb 08, 2008, 02:55 PM // 14:55

Do you people deliberately not try to look up this information first?

[wiki]Damage_calculation#Damage_Rating[/wiki]
A Treatise on Combat Mathematics

Wand and staff damage is based on character level and meeting the requirement. Attributes don't affect damage.

Longasc · Feb 08, 2008, 05:36 PM // 17:36

Thanks for pointing that out.
It is only one line in the whole article with BaseDR (caster). Sorry, did not see that.

That the BaseDR=60 for level 20 chars also did not really help me without reading the whole damage article again... I used the simplified formula for martial weapons for ages by now.

Received Damage = (Damage Enhancement) x (Base Damage) x 2^{ [ (3*CLVL - EAL ) + GSM ] / 40} + (Bonus Damage)

erm yes... let's say it in my words

22 max damage, 20% damage modifier (customized): 22 * 1,2 = 26,4
(this is the 26 i got in the first test, a non-critical hit)

Critical Hit = roughly max damage hit * Square Root of 2.
22 * 1,2 * 1,41 = 37,22
(this is the 37 damage of my 2nd test)

I will add a formula for level 20 chars and 60 AL targets to the explanation to make it easier for people. Not everyone really wants to read through the article, the consolidation should be enough. It should also be noted that the linked Damage Calculator only works for martial weapons, you cannot use it for wands and staves.

And as Savio said, the interesting result is that attribute level is not important for caster weapons, as long as you meet the weapon req..

Feb 08, 2008, 09:15 AM // 09:15	#1
Longasc Forge Runner Join Date: May 2005	Wand/Staff damage formula vs normal weapons We know how damage is calculated for melee weapons. Critical Hit research is still empirical, but actually seems to be very accurate. http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Damage_calculation But how about wands and staves? They do not work like axes, swords and so on. They take the char level in account, as far as I heard... I do not know it. I did a test run with the Master of damage and different attribute values today. I used a customized Fire Staff (+20%): At 16 Fire Magic: 2072 damage over 179 seconds, 11 dps 37 damage maximum hit At 9 Fire Magic: 1960 damage over 180 seconds, 10 dps 26 damage maximum hit Actually, it should be 11,58 dps vs 10,89 dps according to the numbers, the Master does some odd rounding here. So, what is the formula for wands/staves? And was it just statistical error, coincidence, that 16 Fire Magic yields better results? The results are very close together, only 0,68 dps difference, which could be just bad or good luck. The 37 damage must have been a critical hit, if staves/wands are actually capable of critical hits. It is also exceedingly rare, I remember only few hits over 24 damage at all. I would like to add this data to the Wiki, or someone else to add it. Maybe someone can enlighten me how wand/staff damage is calculated.

Feb 08, 2008, 02:28 PM // 14:28	#8
Stormlord Alex Grotto Attendant Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Beyond the Forest of Doom, past the Cavern of Agony... on Kitten & Puppy Island Guild: Soul of Melandru [sOm] Profession: W/E	Let's see... ran some quick numbers over roughly a minute, with a customized Blood staff... 9 Blood Magic Highest damage in 1 second - 37 DPS - ~11 16 Blood Magic Highest damage in 1 second - 26 DPS - ~11 It seems as though staff damage really isn't tied to an attribute beyond meeting the req for the staff. The reason it can appear slightly lower or higher is because - I'm theorizing - critical hits with a staff are so rare (~5%, iirc) that differing numbers of criticals in samples are significant enough events to skew the average DPS number you get. edit: for clarity, full (quick) test numbers - 9 BM 618 damage over 53 seconds = 11.66 dps 16 BM 623 damage over 56 seconds = 11.125 which coincides with the seemingly higher damage caused by the staff at 9 BM(37 damage in 1 sec) - likely as a result of a crit. Last edited by Stormlord Alex; Feb 08, 2008 at 02:33 PM // 14:33..

Feb 08, 2008, 02:55 PM // 14:55	#9
Savio Teenager with attitude Join Date: Jul 2005 Guild: Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]	Do you people deliberately not try to look up this information first? [wiki]Damage_calculation#Damage_Rating[/wiki] A Treatise on Combat Mathematics Wand and staff damage is based on character level and meeting the requirement. Attributes don't affect damage. __________________ People are stupid.

Feb 08, 2008, 09:28 AM // 09:28	#2
quickmonty Ancient Windbreaker Join Date: May 2005	Not to throw a wet blanket on your hard work, but I never really cared how much damage my wand or staff was doing. As a caster I'm more concerned with what is happening with my skills, and the mods on my staff (or wand and offhand). I don't usually spend much time 'wanding' the target. It is, however, interesting.

Feb 08, 2008, 01:12 PM // 13:12	#4
Crom The Pale Furnace Stoker Join Date: Nov 2006 Guild: Ageis Ascending Profession: W/	Not sure why you would think that your wand/staff dmg would be any differnt from that of a sword or bow or scythe, it is a weapon and is subject to all the same rules as any other weapon. The attack spead of a wand/staff is 1.75seconds, this is equal to a hammer with a dmg range(max) of 11-22. If you really want a straight up comparison of weapons find a low end hammer with dmg 9-22(if such exist closest I've seen is 14-22) and have a go at the weapon master.

Feb 08, 2008, 02:16 PM // 14:16	#5
Darkobra Forge Runner Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Scotland Guild: Type like an idiot, I'll treat you like an idiot Profession: E/Me	I think they are capable of a critical, but as you say, it's not too common. As for the more fire magic attribute meaning more damage for the staff, that is something I'd like to know more about. I never thought that'd be possible.

Feb 08, 2008, 02:20 PM // 14:20	#6
makosi Grotto Attendant Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: "Pre-nerf" is incorrect. It's pre-buff. Guild: Requirement Begins With R [notQ] Profession: Me/	Wands and Staves are capable of critical hits which is easiest to see with an Assassin with high Critical Strikes. As for the OP's calculations, it is interesting that the damage averages at the lowest end of the spectrum. I'd expect to see 16.5DPS on average. But on second thoughts, when you consider the attack speed, 11 to 12DPS seems accurate.

Feb 08, 2008, 02:26 PM // 14:26	#7
Quaker Hell's Protector Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Canada Guild: Brothers Disgruntled	Off-hand, I can't see why the damage calculation for a wand/staff should be any different than for any other weapon. On the other hand, we don't know what ANet's "actual" damage calculations are and what affects them, and/or how often they may change.

Feb 08, 2008, 05:36 PM // 17:36	#10
Longasc Forge Runner Join Date: May 2005	Thanks for pointing that out. It is only one line in the whole article with BaseDR (caster). Sorry, did not see that. That the BaseDR=60 for level 20 chars also did not really help me without reading the whole damage article again... I used the simplified formula for martial weapons for ages by now. Received Damage = (Damage Enhancement) x (Base Damage) x 2^{ [ (3CLVL - EAL ) + GSM ] / 40} + (Bonus Damage) erm yes... let's say it in my words 22 max damage, 20% damage modifier (customized): 22 1,2 = 26,4 (this is the 26 i got in the first test, a non-critical hit) Critical Hit = roughly max damage hit * Square Root of 2. 22 * 1,2 * 1,41 = 37,22 (this is the 37 damage of my 2nd test) I will add a formula for level 20 chars and 60 AL targets to the explanation to make it easier for people. Not everyone really wants to read through the article, the consolidation should be enough. It should also be noted that the linked Damage Calculator only works for martial weapons, you cannot use it for wands and staves. And as Savio said, the interesting result is that attribute level is not important for caster weapons, as long as you meet the weapon req..